Bloodcurdling screams… before a catharsis! Jörgen Sundvall shares a part of a session he made with a client.
We will take a break until January 2024 but will come back with more Estafet videos...
ANNA: Great. So, hello everyone and welcome to our next episode of Estafet for EARTh where we go around the world and meet our colleagues, the regression therapists and members of our association. And today we move north and today we are in Sweden with Jörgen. Hi, Jörgen!
ANNA: How are you doing?
JÖRGEN: Doing fine. Thank you.
ANNA: Great to having you. Good
JÖRGEN: Days are getting more sunny by the day, so that’s nice.
ANNA: Finally, yeah, it’s coming. The summer is coming.
So great for you to agree to join us today and I’m very, very much looking forward.
And so let’s just go right ahead and start, and if you can, tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are, where you live and where you’re from.
JÖRGEN: Well, I am from Sweden and I live in Sweden. I’ve been living all around the world, but in the last, oh what, 40 years, I’ve been living in Sweden or so, and I work here.
I work as a hypnotherapist. I work as a regression therapist. Hypno analysis I work with also.
Yeah, well I have a different strings on my bow.
ANNA: Right? So, in different directions, slightly.
ANNA: Nice. And what was your training for all those things? Where did you train?
JÖRGEN: I trained- first started training with Neil French in England, training hypnosis and hypnoanalysis which is very specific. Not so much used a form of psychoanalysis, but under hypnosis, so that was extremely interesting. And of course, that means doing regressions to this lifetime and the early influencing years. And they’re naturally spontaneously.
Some people went further back into past life, just spontaneously. So I got into regression therapy and I trained with the Henry Leo Bolduc. And he was a fantastic person, wonderful teacher and a nice friend.
ANNA: Great. And was that always your profession or did you have did you do something else before you started this?
JÖRGEN: Yes, I did something before this.The change of profession occurred in 1986.
This is when I first started studying hypnosis. Before that I was a teacher of meditation and different yogic experiences did that for a long time.But I thought that I needed something more because people started coming, coming with all sorts of disturbances, you know, of the mind. And I just didn’t think that yoga explained or helped very much. Something, of course meditation helps, but I needed more tools. So I started looking for good tools and a friend of mine tipped me off for this teacher in England. And so I went and I stayed with him for quite a few years and I’ve been working with it since.
ANNA: So this is like your full time job now for all these years?
JÖRGEN: It is. Of course, nowadays I’m halfway working, half time working and half time just being a senior citizen.
ANNA: It’s also great. You can enjoy.
JÖRGEN: I’m trying to.
ANNA: Yeah. And so how does that? How did that because of regression therapy and hypnotherapy. Now that you’re half and half and before you were full time, how was that for you being a full time hypnotherapist and regression therapist?
JÖRGEN: I had a very busy practice, fortunately and so I got stressed. And eventually my wife took over the the bookings and she’s little better than me to say no. I’m a sucker for people who’s saying, “well, you know, I’ve been everywhere, nothing helps. And can’t you help me?” All right. And there I go, you know, So my wife takes care of that nowadays.
So it’s a good thing for me.
ANNA: How helpful. And do you get clients that are mainly from Sweden or for Nordic countries or also around the world?
JÖRGEN: I do. I do get people from around the world. Before, they used to travel to Sweden, you know, from the neighboring countries like Germany and of course the Scandinavian countries. But nowadays, of course, with the digital revolutions, I reach people or they reach me from around the globe.
ANNA: Right. That is much more accessible now.
JÖRGEN: Yeah, in that way it’s nice. Just like we are speaking now. I can see you. And that was the revolution long time, not so long ago. Yeah. So I don’t mind working with the, you know, with Zoom and things like that. Although there are certain drawbacks, of course.
ANNA: Right. Right. And actually my question was, since you work a lot online now, do you have any tips for working online for our colleagues?
JÖRGEN: Oh, maybe that’s very presumptuous because they’re probably much better than me with these things.
ANNA: Well, everyone has their own experience.
JÖRGEN: Yeah, well I because that’s the way I work. I work through a lot through sounds.
I would suggest getting a good sound system. So, I mean, I can- I listen to clients very carefully, the words they use and how they say them because that’s my modality, that’s important to me.
JÖRGEN: So a good sound is important and of course good lighting. These are natural things.
Yeah, I don’t know what else to say. It’s- the important thing is to be close to the client and the client being close to you.
ANNA: Right. Yeah, that’s exactly was my comment when we started the video that your sound is very good.
JÖRGEN: Ah, good. Thank you.
ANNA: I really, I really hear you very close. It’s true because I had this experience with one client online and I did not have anything. And so at some point I couldn’t hear her myself because she was so quiet, of course.
JÖRGEN: Yeah. Yeah,
ANNA: That’s a very important- sound.
JÖRGEN: I’ve got one more tip.
JÖRGEN: With your client, make sure you have the client’s phone number right, because it can cut off, you know, The line can be cut off and then, I mean, I had that experience the other day.All of a sudden I couldn’t get her back, not that the line broke, but she just did not want to come back and she stayed there and I tried everything. Of course, if it had been a live session, I have my tricks how to do that, but no, I didn’t have. Fortunately, I had a phone number so I could ring her up on the phone and-
ANNA: Get her back.
JÖRGEN: -get it back. Yeah.
ANNA: Yeah. Wow. Amazing. And so we’re doing all these for so many years. How did this profession, and regression therapy in particular, affected your life personally?
JÖRGEN: Oh, deeply. Not only when it comes to past lives, but all sessions. They teach me so much about myself and my reactions and my presumptions. Sometimes, you know, out of lethargy, I think- well, you know, being little experienced, “it’s going to go this way.” And I so many times have found out “don’t be presumptuous” just follow the client as it is. And in that way, you can also avoid being a lead- leading the person into where you think you should be. Yeah.
ANNA: Exactly. Did you learn something also, I mean, this is therapy wise, right? This teaches you how to be a therapist, but what about you as a as a person? Any learnings that stand out?
JÖRGEN: Probably 1,000,000 but you know the the most important I that help has helped me personally is to be more of a person. I know, you know what- what is it that people need including myself. It is the relationship, a relationship of warmth, a relationship of wishing each other well, you know. So that’s really something that I concentrated in my life, the last 10-15 years instead of being up in the head and being the intellectual teacher. I’ve gone away from- I hope, from much of that.
ANNA: Right. Yeah, you’re true, that’s true. And now to also an interesting question that we have touched before we started is an interesting story from your practice. Is there anything to share?
JÖRGEN: Yes, I was thinking, you know, hard on that question because there are so many things that pop up when you think of it, but probably one of the most outstanding memories is concerning a lady that came. She had gone to therapy for 20 years but she was suffering very badly when she was younger and she could not be with- alone with her children. She always had to have someone else there to make sure that she didn’t kill them. She had this, you know, this OCD about killing the children, really, really scared, so really suffering.
Now the children are older, so that went away. But then now she’s got grandchildren and she has the same problem and she can’t hold the children, the grandchildren, being alone, doing that, just she has to make sure someone is there to stop her in case she does. So, that is of course a case of incredible suffering for her.
And like I said, she’s been to therapy and I was doing a bit of a lecture tour in north Sweden and she heard me and she came after and asked for if I had time for a session. And I just didn’t have the heart to say no. And then we did have a session. And this session really is so strong in my mind because she abreacted and we found not only- well the story comes- unfolds as a past life she was abused by warriors, she said “by kings” but I mean, yeah- and she was badly raped and mutilated and she died.
Now I did- For some reason I’d- she never asked me, but for some reason I recorded this session and in retrospect, I understand why. And in that session, every time her anxiety level, her hands were going like this and you can actually hear it in this little recording and when the anxiety increases, it goes faster and faster and-
Should I play it?
ANNA: OMG, yes, let’s do it.
JÖRGEN: OK, so this is when she actually experienced the original pain- or at least that would be presume the original pain of being so severely abused by a lot of warriors and then eventually horribly mutilated. But I didn’t- I don’t play that part. I play the first-.
You can hear her arm now going up and down. Can you hear it?
(audio recording of the session, the client screams)
JÖRGEN: OK. I’ll leave it like that. That was a- you know, that was a gruesome- I’ll stop share now- A horrible experience for me and for her especially. She’d been saying- She had been saying words like red hot fury, you know, red hot rage, “but not mine,” she said, “but not mine.” And I knew it was hers. So then this happened. And I was thinking, well, this is-this probably would explain a lot of of the rage that she feels in this lifetime. But still, it didn’t- didn’t satisfy me. And I saw that in her body language and also the arm kept doing it, although on a slower level. I realized there’s more tension there. So she- she’d actually died.
They- they really did a horrible job on her and she died and she goes to explain what happens and she’s very, very cold and she’s taking a boat; it’s like- even like the Norse mythology, taking a boat and then she comes to a cathedral and a huge door and she goes in and there’s a fire in there. She goes to the fire because she’s so cold, her lips are going like this, her teeth.
And in front of the fire she goes to to get some warmth, and she’s “ah, but there’s no warmth.
There’s no warmth here in the fire.” And so I take her on, go on. And eventually- shall I do play the other part, The last part?
ANNA: Yeah, sure. Of course.
JÖRGEN: OK, share. Share is there and share is there.
OK, now I’m not sure where we end up in the recording, but I think it’s roughly here.
(audio recording of the session resumes) She doesn’t know what’s happening right now.
And her arm starts going little stronger- then “I’m in nowhere, nowhere…” “it’s very dark.”/
“What do the- What do the arms and hands want to do?” (the client taps her arms and screams and sighs) I keep pushing it a bit. “What are they going to do? What are they doing? What do they want to do?” And I can see her wavering and I don’t want to lose her. “Tell me.” / “I think that they want to do like this. I think they want to do some more. Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill.” / “Yes. There. “Oh, there you are.”
And she says, and she swears a little bit, and she says- anyway- She says, so bloody nice she got rid of it.
JÖRGEN: Yeah. And some people who do work with body therapy a lot, they probably would have got in earlier to question the arm but I know because she was in front of me, I could see she wasn’t ready and that would have stopped our progress a bit. That would have prolonged anyway at this session much, much more. Because she was standing on the brink all the time and she wanted to say, but didn’t want to say. She didn’t quite know, but there’s something horrible, so she didn’t want to. So I had to push her in the end and she came through and that’s it. I followed up a few years and still doing fine.
ANNA: So it was gone, this feeling with the children.
ANNA: Very well.
JÖRGEN: And she’s been going to therapy for 20 years. And I realized that I have one chance. I’m going to leave the town tomorrow, and I have one chance. So, yeah. So we did it.
I don’t know what you’re going to make out of this, but make from this but for me it was a very powerful moment. Shows the the potency of regression therapy.
ANNA: Exactly. Thank you for sharing. Well, it’s amazing. Thank you also with such a, you know, even in internal experience into the sound of the session. It’s fantastic. Thank you so much Jörgen.
JÖRGEN: You’re welcome.
ANNA: Okay, let’s go into another deeper question. Because as the story goes, I get the question from David Graham that nominated you to do this interview and he got- asked the question that I’m going to ask you now, which was: Who we are, what is our place in this universe, and how come we have all these many different lives?
JÖRGEN: I see. What a simple question-
ANNA: Exactly it’s. Just for a 15 minute answer.
JÖRGEN: Thanks Dave. Well, we as far as what I think is that we will never be happy and we will never reach our sense of fulfillment until we actually transcend this, this world of exploitation and you know and the mentality of using things and people for my own enjoyment.
And as long as we do that we’re going to stay- until we’ve reach a level of no need, we’re going to stay here and at different levels up and down, up and down.
I don’t believe in this theory that you just improve everything until eventually you reach- well it depends on how you see this of course but you may see it like that up and down can also be a you know a way out. But, but basically I would say we will come back again and again until we actually learn to be in known, to be no need. And that way we will let people be and we won’t exploit them. And our selfishness, our self-centedness, at least in this boiled sense and the mind sense, I will cease.
I don’t know if that’s an answer that will satisfy Dave, but that’s what I came up with now.
ANNA: All right. Next time we’ll have a interview with both of you together.
JÖRGEN: Yeah well you see- my experiences- First of all I’m not just this body, right?
And I think we all work with regression therapy, I agree with that one. And but also we are not this mind- or some people call it the soul. I’m not really sure how you, how people define the soul, but for me the soul is that eternal spark. And until we reach that eternal spark which is, you know, a God-given gift, then we will keep going on and on, up and down on this material world until we really get sick of it.
I mean it’s the same story, you know, it doesn’t matter what life you are in- and, you know, eat, sleep and mate and defend, you know, that’s what we do. Sooner or later you get sick of it, at least when you get to my age.
ANNA Yeah, yeah. It goes on and on and and then who knows what happens?
Yeah. No way. Great. Well, I hope Dave will be happy with this answer.
And now you get to ask your own question to the next person who will be doing that, and you get to choose that person and who that person will be.
JÖRGEN: My next person would be a person that I’ve known quite a few years now and that’s Nassos.
JÖRGEN: And I see him as a friend, but I also see him as a teacher. He’s- I’ve attended a lot of his workshops, spoken to him privately and I know he’s such a knowledgeable person, really well educated and has usually has substance behind what he says. So I would definitely nominate him with a clear heart and my question- goodness gracious! What- you know, it was maybe a few years ago three years ago we met and I had this vision internally- I didn’t say anything- that he was somehow connected with the old Alexandrian Bishop Athanasius.
I’m not sure if that’s the Greek pronunciation, but he was a great theologian who fought the notion that Jesus was of a different substance from the Father. I’m not sure I agree with that.
But anyhow, that’s- I don’t know. But my question to Nassos is: Have you had any past lives or any notions about this Athanasius in Alexandria in what is it, 300 or so? Yeah, That’s my question.
ANNA: All right. Interesting. Ohh, I’m looking forward to ask this question next time.
ANNA: Great. Thank you so much, Jörgen.
JÖRGEN: You’re welcome, Anna.
ANNA: And we’ll wrap it up and as I said you guys are look out on all the videos that are coming out on our website and also the newsletter, and Jörgen, again I thank you very much for joining me today. It was a pleasure and I hope to see you soon.
JÖRGEN: Yes, thank you very much, Anna, for arranging all this, and I shall certainly look at the different films that you’re putting out.
ANNA: Yes, please take a look. Exactly. Thank you, Jörgen.
JÖRGEN: All right.
ANNA: It was a great pleasure. Bye guys and we’ll keep you posted and keep watching.